I find this extremely interesting about networks and other things

also at http://p2pfoundation.net/Next_Buddha_Will_Be_A_Collective

 

THIS IS MIKE'S RESPONSE BY EMAIL:

 

 

Many thanks Tom

Very interesting stuff - I am going to read this again more carefully but on first glance it supports some thoughts I have been having about personal development and networks.

I was with John M today; he asked me what was the next step on our "Networks" project.  I said that I thought it was to meet again on 29 April...

THIS IS CHRIS'S RESPONSE

 

Hello all,

Yes it is interesting - though I'm not sure Michael Bauwens is saying much - if anything that hasn't been said (more simply and attractively I think) by relational practitioners from the Soc Con and A-N-T schools for 20+ years.  What is interesting is that in advocating a more active-participatory ontology he writes as a scientist - observing all this...

 

TOM'S NEXT RESPONSE

 

Hi Chris, thanks for this.

 You say that

I'm not sure Michael Bauwens is saying much - if anything that hasn't been said (more simply and attractively I think) by relational practitioners from the Soc Con and A-N-T schools for 20+ years.

I'd be interested to hear more about what you intended to make happen by making this statement.

Perhaps the social...

CHRIS:

 

Sorry Tom - I think you interpreted my comments as being dismissive. On the contrary - I think this stuff is important - however I do feel that the likes of Bruno Latour, Ken gergen and Richard Rorty say it better - for me anyway. My intention (rather than effect) - was to draw attention to the relational stuff and community that's already around. Maybe he does acknowledge these social...

MIKE

 

 

Chris

I agree with you thrust - I am also interested in what networks can do.  Why does the NHS Cancer Plan of 2000 say that service quality and equality of access can only be delivered through networks?  And have the networks managed to deliver improvements on the old structural (and relational) arrangements? [So for me the structural and the relational are intertwined...

CHRIS

 

Thanks Mike - I think we may be saying similar things.

I agree with you about different languages - it seems to me that 'knowing what to do next'  ('how to go on ' - is this Garfinkel?) in networks, distributed order as a matter of preference and judgement - as opposed to being simply swept up in them seems to be important - but I think this is different from 'design and control'....

JOHN MACK

 

Hi Gang

A few stray thoughts:

Thanks for the article Tom - as a result I've ordered the Fiske book - I like the sound of his four types of relationship. I have also been checking out Ultraculture as an idea

I had a quick look on Wiki to remind myself (!) what ontology is all about (double!) - bit of a messy entry really but I did like the part that said Ontology has one basic...

TOM:

 

Hullo John - good to hear from you. Thanks for the thoughts - I certainly see myself as a "newbie" in all this too!

I'm not entirely clear as to why we are making these brilliant contributions by email? They seem to be just the sort of thing that the webspace Discussion Forum is for!

Cheers

Tom Boydell

JOHN MACK:

 

I think Mike said he preferred this medium. Do you think doing it through the forum would, dare I say, 'add value'? The only disadvantage this way is your inbox can get a bit crowded!

TOM:

 

I find it harder to keep track of  a thread of conversation using email - even with only 5 of us. In a larger community I think it would become unmanageable. I know this particularcommunity probably won't get any bigger but we may well start another - well if the project goes head I would say we definitely will - so it could be a useful practice/experience to have a go on the web.

I am trying here to carry over a discussion that began beteen Mike, John and myself in theCFO forum. What follows is the LAST item in the thread posted (by me). It is too difficult to repost all the items so I have attached a *.pdf file which reproduces that whole thread - or you can go to:

 

This posting followed questions...

Well I reakky want to paste soewmething here from your last item Chris, so that I can comment on it without retyping.

 

I copied it OK but IN can't find a paste function?

 

Thanks for starting this Chris.

 

 

I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding this. What is an either/or network?. Can you say more about this issue...

Let me try this Tom:-

 

"As to whether either networks or hierarchies are more naturally occuring - seems to me they are as much naturally occuring as each other - but useful in different contexts [which are changing and blurring]. "

 

...is what I meant to say. Sorry

Thanks Chris - yes I understand both the staement and your view - that either might be, depending on context.

 

Somebody at the event said that they thought that hierarchies are more "natural". Leaping into stage model mode I think I would tend to believe that it depends on the stage of development of the particular context - group, organisation, communiuty, society. A characteristic...

I'd like to get a good discussion going here. Can we make it work?

Well I don't know about that Tom, but at least I could get here.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Well done Mike - for getting here!

 

In fact something curious has happened - I got the alert that yopu had added something but when I followed the ink it went to CFO public homepage, not to here. I will check this out with Chris.

I sent an email about the alerts:-

 

Yes it depends on which link ou click. The long one goes to CFO, the one under Networks comes here.

 

Incidentally I tried topaste thois comment in and couldn't find a way to do it - had to type from scratch. Pasting (or copying) doesn't seem a possibility?

:-) Ah, I think I notice a pattern in your learning style here Tom - viz 'accommodating'  v 'assimilating'). I have just cut and pasted the whole of the next main item 'Making sense of networks'. It is possible.

 

Sometimes when you have lots of windows pen (used up too much memory) or if your 'clipboard' is full it might not work.

 

Chris

 

 

Copying is OK - I have copied from your last item and pasted in an email. But when I right click in here nothing opens - no pste or anything.

Ah Tom - what you have to do is either Cntrl+V or got to Edit (in the toolbar atthe top of your browser) and select paste from there.

 

Chris

Thanks Chris - yes I now can paste.